Jason Taulbee purchased his first piece of original comic book art in 1990 and ever since he has dedicated his collecting to the acquisition of original comic book cover art. Specifically, Taulbee is a huge fan of Marvel’s vigilante the Punisher and as such he has built one of the finest collections of original Punisher cover art. Taulbee is currently selling some of his original cover art in Hake’s Americana & Collectibles’ Auction #221.

A fan since the 1980s, Taulbee gravitated towards the Punisher’s unique position in comics as one of the forerunners in the early push towards gritty realism and edgy antiheroes, where the character remains an icon to this day. With a collecting pedigree that goes back to the pre-internet days, Taulbee built his collection piece by piece, networking with art dealers, agents, fellow collectors and the artists themselves. Many of his original covers came directly from the original artist and therefore haven’t been offered to the collector market for nearly 30 years. Finding even more fans due to Marvel’s Netflix series (and his own series debuting soon), the Punisher remains an iconic character for yet another generation.

Here Taulbee talks to Hake’s Americana & Collectibles Comic Art Specialist Sean Rutan about the Punisher and his collection.

Scoop: Since you are a Punisher specialist, what was your intro to the character? Do you remember the first time you encountered him?
Jason Taulbee (JT): The first time I can remember seeing Punisher was probably on the newsstand when I was a kid. I was born in ’73 so I’m thinking I would’ve been 12 or 13 years old when I started seeing the Punisher solo stuff. I remember Mike Zeck’s Punisher in my head, too, but in my mind most of what I remember is slightly later [Klaus] Janson-looking stuff. That’s probably my first exposure to it.

Scoop: He’s one of those characters that’s in my head from childhood, but I don’t recall exactly where I learned about him. Now, I was aware of him when the Dolph Lundgren film came out when I was probably 11 or 12.
JT: Oh, well [laughs] I was better off than that, thankfully, because that would’ve sucked as a first introduction.

Scoop: Well I say that because when that movie came out, I already knew he was a comic character and I think it came from the Captain America cover by Frank Miller where Punisher is standing on Cap’s shield. I remember thinking “Man, this guy has a sweet costume and he has Cap where he wants him, so he must be pretty tough.” Thing is, I am almost certain that I didn’t see that book on the racks when it was originally released and it must’ve been when I was older in the late ’80s going to comic shops. He was noticeably tough.
JT: Well, part of the thing with me was that my dad owned a gun shop and was a gun dealer, so growing up another thing that really appealed to me is that Punisher had real guns done real ways. Plus, he was a vigilante more than a superhero. You got the idea that if you had enough money and enough technology and trained hard enough, you could be him too. Know what I mean?

Scoop: Yeah, he was very relatable.
JT: His firearms stuff is really accurate for the most part and I always enjoyed his Armory issues where they’d show his arsenal of real guns and how they fit into realistic scenarios. I always admired that because it seemed to be a comic based in reality. Or at least a possible reality.

Scoop: So, was he the first comic character you gravitated towards or did you like other characters first and evolve into a Punisher fan over time?
JT: Probably a little bit of both. When I was younger I liked superheroes for superheroes’ sake, but I think when I started getting teenaged and seeing vigilantism as being cooler, you know, like discovering [Charles] Bronson in Death Wish and things like that, I started to think it was really cool for a normal dude to do all this stuff instead of having to be lucky enough to get irradiated. [laughs] It always seemed that the right kind of soldier could actually be the Punisher if you were good enough, you know?

Scoop: No, you’re right, he’s not like a trained soldier, he is a trained soldier. He’s a Special Forces master of warfare. It is very believable.
JT: So, as I got into my – I don’t want to say cynical – teenage years, I do think that I was definitely drawn to more realistic scenarios than, say, science fiction or magic or things like that.

Scoop: Now did you ever read his old stuff? I assume you have, but did you ever go back and compare his earlier appearances? Because his early stuff he was obviously in a bit more standard superhero fare, but he was unique in that he was willing to kill. In the mid-’70s there weren’t a lot of mainstream characters like that. But by the time you were reading him maybe 10 or 15 years later, he had sort of transcended his niche role and – it was either him or Wolverine, probably both – who had become the poster children for darker, edgy, violent comic book hero or anti-hero. Did you have a preference for either era or style?
JT: Exactly. And yeah, I didn’t get into much of the ’70s stuff but I did go back and look at some of it. Nowadays when I go back and look at the ’70s Punisher, I really admire the art quite a bit but I don’t know that the stories really connect. I kind of got hooked on the ’80s storylines and styles and that might be because of some of what you’re saying with them being a bit edgier and more violent. But you know, it’s not that unusual if you compare it to the ’80s action movies of the time. They run in that same pattern and I always picture [Arnold] Schwarzenegger and [Sylvester] Stallone movies and I couldn’t get enough of those at the time. [laughs] Maybe the cultures sort of fed each other.

Scoop: I fully agree with that, like, if you compare the action films of the ’70s like Dog Day Afternoon or The Warriors…
JT: Almost a more cerebral action style.

Scoop: …Yeah, the style is way different than, say, Commando or Rambo II in the ’80s. It wasn’t the over-the-top machismo that you’d see with Arnold or Sly or [Jean-Claude] Van Damme or even the B-movie guys like Don Wilson or Jeff Speakman or Rutger Hauer chopping Tex Cobb in half with a samurai sword. It was a perfect era for a character like the Punisher and it becomes a bit of a “chicken and the egg” thing where is it the Punisher first, or the culture first, or who fed who and who inspired who. It’s pretty interesting stuff when you look at it through that cultural perspective.
JT: They definitely developed together. They definitely grew together, no doubt. I think that’s a good example of why comic books have endured for decades now, as they are a unique look at the culture we live in and, as collectors, that’s why we love them. Not just for their stories at the time, but also for their nostalgia as a snapshot in time for each generation.

Scoop: Fully agreed. Well, you touched on storylines briefly and I know that you have multiple Punisher covers from different storylines and story arcs and I’m curious to hear more about your favorite stories. Your knowledge of the character is pretty impressive and I’m curious if you have a favorite storyline or lines? If you only had one story to offer a new reader as an intro to the Punisher, what would it be?
JT: That’s a tough one because there are several great storylines with their own unique spin. If I had to choose in my prime era of the late ’80s or early ’90s, the whole Suicide Run crossover event that Marvel had in all three of the Punisher titles at the time, for me, the combination of story and art is perfect. It had some really awesome Michael Golden covers, the interior art was great, the storytelling was great, and that section of time when I think back as a kid is a great example of what made me love the character. I’m not even sure if it was the best storyline, but it was my favorite and the one that sticks in my memories the most.

Scoop: You’re right, because I’m not even sure that “best” can be defined. It’s too subjective. Some of it is tied to nostalgia and how it connects with you at certain points in your life. I love certain stories and books that others can’t stand and vice versa.
JT: I agree. And actually, when I think about it now, it was definitely those Suicide Run covers that made me start to lust after the original cover art as a collector. [laughs] I remember looking at those covers and thinking how cool they were as standalone art themselves. I think that’s really what got me hooked when I was lucky enough to find an original Punisher cover and realized I could own more of this great art.  

Scoop: When was this? When did you buy your first original comic art cover?
JT: Oh, man, I bought my first original cover in ’90 or ’91. I was either just out of high school or just about to get out of high school, around 17 or 18. I bought it from another collector at a comic con actually.

Scoop: That’s awesome! So you were…well, if there’s a trend, I mean obviously people were buying original comic art back in the 1960s and maybe even earlier, but in general you were well ahead of the collecting boom for original art.
JT: Well, to be honest, I really only got the art for the sake of hanging it on my wall to admire it. When I was younger I read some other stuff like I mentioned earlier and I loved Conan, and I really love the black and white comics and magazines without color added. One of the things I loved about the original art is that I got to see what the art looked like in its purest form. So, when I’d see these original covers and their crazy detail, always larger than the published books, the art really spoke to me on a different level. That was definitely a huge part of the appeal.

Scoop: Okay, so did you collect comics at all before getting into the art?
JT: No, not really at all, I never really obsessed over owning complete runs of comics and things like that. I did like the stories but it’s more of an appreciation of the illustration and talent in the art itself that does it for me, not the other way around. Don’t get me wrong; I loved comics and would randomly buy them as I grew up, but I was never really a hardcore comic book collector. My love for the art form sort of met in the middle.

Scoop: Well I guess that explains why you’re sort of a specialist in that you really only go after Punisher covers and covers alone.
JT: Yeah, people have said that, but I definitely have other art and stories that I like and appreciate, but if I open up the flood gates and went after every piece of pen and ink that I like, I’d be poor and wouldn’t have enough wall space to hang it anyways. [laughs]

Scoop: That would be a good problem to have, but I feel you on the need to be disciplined so we can eat and pay the mortgage. It’d be great to have infinite means to get all the art we want.
JT: Yeah, we should all be so lucky to have those problems. In today’s market especially.

Scoop: Speaking of, can you remember what you paid for that first cover back in 1990?
JT: Umm, I can’t remember exactly, but I can tell you that up until 1995 I never paid more than $1,200 for any cover. And believe it or not, the one that got $1,200 out of me in ’95 was the cover to War Zone #4 by John Romita Jr. and I actually had to talk myself into it because it broke my $1,000-line. [laughs] Now I sold that cover about 3 years ago for nearly $6,000 so I should’ve picked up every single cover that I had a chance at in the early ’90s!

Scoop: So, you mentioned your favorite storylines and, for example, I’m a Captain America guy so I immediately think of Red Skull, Batroc, Crossbones, Zola, Baron Blood, and guys like that as key villains. But the Punisher is different because he usually murders [laughs] most of his villains so I’m not sure who’s left. Do you have a favorite Punisher nemesis or villain, even if it’s one that he did kill?
JT: When I was a kid, the Kingpin was always the classic one for me. I always felt that Punisher fits in really well against the mob and organized crime, especially when it turned out that his own family was connected to the mob, too. That always added some Godfather vibe in there. [laughs] I like Bullseye, too, especially when he’s drawn creepily.

Scoop: You have good taste, because I’m pretty sure that the Kingpin is the last villain in the Capcom arcade game for The Punisher, with Nick Fury.
JT: Yeah, he absolutely is. Great game, too.

Scoop: So, you mentioned that you loved black and white art, and I guess that makes sense considering the timeframe when art wasn’t nearly as expensive as today. The speculator market wasn’t quite there yet so it was more of an artistic value than a monetary value, right? At that time did you recognize that this particular artist is fantastic and I’d really love a piece, or this story line is great and I’m going to hunt down a cover from the run until a find one? I mean, was it the artist, or was it the content, or was it a combination? Did it vary from piece to piece?
JT: When I discovered that original art was actually a thing and available to buy for the public, I started looking at all of the Punisher covers that I’d previously seen with a different eye. It was probably the cover artist who drove most of my love for the hobby, so I would go after my favorite stylists like Mike Manley, Michael Golden, of course John Romita, and I loved Joe Quesada. But the thing is, until I discovered that original art was a thing, I didn’t really define the art by the artist. It was just the character I loved. But then I realized there was a real person behind the art and each one had different traits, and it was then that I really developed a love for the hobby as a whole. It just so happened that all these covers I liked the most happened to be drawn by the same dudes over and over again. So, then I’d start to see like “Oh, those are all Manley covers” or “Those are all Golden covers. No wonder I like it!” It was then I started hunting for specific covers and artists.

Scoop: Nice.
JT: And this was the early days before the internet, so I’d have to rely on the Seattle con or the Portland con to find art and build a network. Every once in a while I’d find a Punisher image that I loved and I’d buy it without regard to or even knowledge of the artist, but for the most part when I actually hunted with a goal it was driven by the artist.

Scoop: You named a few great artists there and as you’re talking I’m sitting here thinking about other great artists you have in your cover collection. Is there any cover out there or artist that you would love to have that you don’t yet?
JT: I was actually pretty fortunate to have found most of my favorite stories and artists over the years. If there was one guy that I should’ve bought when I had the opportunity it would be [Mike] Zeck. But honestly I checked off nearly every cover that I really wanted over the years and I’m thankful for it. I don’t think there’s a true [Bernie] Wrightson-only cover, but I do have a Wrightson splash page from the series he did with [Joe] Jusko. And Jusko is another piece that I always wanted and was finally able to acquire when I picked up one of his painted Punisher covers. That was a tough hunt.

Scoop: Are there any guys you haven’t met yet that you’d love to meet? Any fanboy dreams that are tied to your collection that haven’t yet come true? Is there anyone you’d love to shake hands with and maybe, ideally, have them hand you a piece of art in the process?
JT: Oh, man, I’d love to meet Romita Jr. for all of those great War Zone covers. I never have met Michael Golden. I hear he’s really nice but I’ve never had the chance and I’d love to just shake his hand. When I think of a Punisher cover in my head, like the first two or three are usually Golden covers. I had another collector tell me that “You’ve never owned a Punisher cover until you’ve owned a Michael Golden with bullets flying all over it.” [laughs]

Scoop: That actually takes me back to an earlier point that we didn’t really dig too far into: What is it about covers that really made you a specialist collector? See, for me, whenever I go to a convention and even imagine doing so in my earliest memories, what you see at these shows are the covers. That’s always the first thing that grabs your eye and that memory being tied to all the great conventions is yet another bonus point for covers that other pieces of art don’t necessarily have. So not only do I get to appreciate the great art itself, I also have a memory tied to seeing these books at shows and on the racks for many years.
JT: Yeah, that was a big factor for me. You might love interior pages from your favorite stories, but if someone says “Think of Secret Wars #8” the first image that’ll pop in your head is the cover. Another thing that I love about covers is whenever you think of a published comic you’ve got 20-plus sheets making up the story, so 20 different people might own a piece of that issue. But with covers there is only that one, and if it’s an iconic cover it’s even cooler in its exclusivity.

Scoop: Yeah, you’re right. Great point, man.
JT: That’s another thing that appealed to me with art that I didn’t really get with comics, even when they push them as “limited editions” or whatever, because it doesn’t get more limited than the one statement piece for the book that has the artists’ sweat on that one piece of paper.

Scoop: No, you’re right. That’s actually why I collect original art in general, but there’s just something about a cover that’s in a class by itself. Judging from the market, we aren’t the only guys who feel this way. [laughs] Alright, moving on, we already made fun of Dolph Lundgren a little bit (I kid, I kid), so as a Punisher cover collector, are you a movie and TV fan of the character or is it more the books themselves.
JT: You know, I think they’re doing a good job with the character as they go along. The last couple films gave him his due and I’m excited about what they do with the Netflix series. Treating him like a real, honest character.

Scoop: So, let’s talk about your motivation for doing this now. For the readers at home who can see that these covers are great, what’s making you part with them?
JT: Basically, I’m shifting into a different stage in my life. I’m solidly middle-aged at 44 [laughs] and I am trying to establish some real estate to pass on that might not be possible without moving the art. I also fairly recently realized that I’ve had all this great art hanging on my basement walls to the point where there were some of them that I never even see any more. You know, I’d walk past them and didn’t realize it any more. I’m not an entirely selfless guy, but that’s kind of like the ultimate first-world a—— if you have a piece of art that at one time you truly admired and now it’s just sitting in a corner and you don’t appreciate it like you once did…somebody else needs a chance to be able to look after that art.

Scoop: Haha! Good on you for the self-awareness, bud.
JT: [Laughs] It’s like being married to a beautiful movie star but you won’t sleep with her and you don’t care about her needs, but you also won’t let anyone else. You just keep her locked up. It just doesn’t seem right. So overall, there are a few pieces that I’ll keep…

Scoop: Oh, good, that was my next question
JT: …yeah, some pieces that I have a deeper personal connection to, and those will be with me for the duration as I sort of roll into this new phase of my life.

Scoop: Yeah, I’m glad to hear that you’re keeping a few personal pieces, because there is always the possibility for regret when we part with our collections. It’s ingrained in us as collectors. And you’re my first client with Hake’s and I wanted you to know that I sincerely appreciate it and thank you for that.
JT: Don’t get me wrong, this is a win for both of us and you’re helping me out, too.

Scoop: I’m truly glad to hear it and I’m excited about the entire process. I’m just making sure it’s a mostly-positive experience with minimal regret as you part with these. [laughs]
JT: Well some will be tougher than others, especially from the artists that I built relationships with over time or the really scarce pieces. Like that Scott Williams cover might be one of very few surviving Punisher covers, if not the last, because of a house fire that destroyed much of his art. The same with the [Dave] Cockrum cover that I have; I don’t believe he did another Punisher cover that I’m aware of.

Scoop: Speaking of which, you talked about some of the artists you’ve met and even gotten to know over the years. Do you have a favorite story or victory of tracking down a piece? You know, a cool story of a great hunt that ended up in your favor?
JT: Probably my coolest story isn’t tied to Punisher but it’s actually getting to know Nick Bakay, who created the Evil Clown comics in the late ’80s and early ’90s. At that time in my life, this was the height of humor for me [laughs], so to get to know him and Alan Kupperberg many years later was just great. I sent Nick some cold emails and did my best to make them as funny as possible in hopes that he’d write me back, and when he did, I about s—. I actually had one of the test printings for the Angry Crown book and I sent it to Nick asking him to sign it. I sent him a copy to keep and asked him to return one signed for me. I did the same with Kupperberg and when Alan sent his back he added “If it wasn’t for you I wouldn’t even know that this silly little book existed.” Then just a couple years later he passed away. So, it was really cool to have this little part of your childhood inside you still screaming that you got to talk to both the guys who created a favorite story and actually send them something that they didn’t already have, and then to get them to reply with “You’re the man” felt like, you know, bucket list accomplished! I felt really lucky to connect with something that meant a great deal to me as a kid before it was too late.

Scoop: That’s actually a pretty cool piece of trivia about Kupperberg. I knew he did the Obnoxio books for Marvel but never knew he also did the Frenchy the Clown books for National Lampoon. What a niche! So, that leaves me with one last question for you.
JT: Go for it.

Scoop: It’s actually a two-part question, with one about the actual character of the Punisher and one about his artwork. Where do you see the Punisher, as a character in comics, evolving over the next 20 years or so, and where do you see his artwork going? Both his art in regards to the era that you collect, which would be late ’80s through the 1990s, but also his older stuff and newer stuff? How do you see it affecting the market going forward?
JT: I, let’s see, I really think there is always going to be a place for a single person fighting against a perceived wrong in society, vigilante-style, so I don’t see the Punisher having any trouble going forward in comics. Art-wise, I respect the new artists but I look at new digital art and can’t help but wax nostalgic for the old pencil and inks. It’s just a different look and I understand that it’s a new generation that came up on a different standard, idolizing different things. The more hand-drawn the Punisher looks to me, the better he looks to me, so let’s hope they keep it going in that direction. Like, I only own a single Tim Bradstreet cover, but I really like the way he did his covers in photo-realistic style, with the same body model being lightboxed for his covers. Check and make sure, but I’m actually pretty sure it might’ve been Thomas Jane he used as a model for his covers. I gave that cover to my brother when I decided it needed to stick around. [laughs] I don’t have much modern stuff, though I do have the Bradstreet and a Reverend Dave Johnson cover. Those are both modern artists that I’ve enjoyed the direction they’ve taken the Punisher.

Scoop: Yeah, I do like the way they’ve retained much of the original Romita Sr. design style while still keeping it relevant for incoming generations. It’s a little less spandex superhero-esque and a little more militaristic.
JT: Right, and that’s great for our generation and the one after it. It’s kind of like a compromise between the old white-gloves Punisher, which wouldn’t be ideal tactically today, and, say, some guy on Modern Warfare. It’s sort of like the in-between the way they’re drawing him now.

Scoop: I’m also glad to see Marvel sticking with him because now they’re owned by Disney and I always wondered how that would go down. I thought for sure the Punisher would be going bye-bye but I’m glad he’s holding strong. And with that, we are done, my friend. I truly appreciate the time.
JT: Yeah, Sean, thank you for this. We’ll have to hang out some time over a couple beers.

Punisher and original art fans can bid on pieces from Taulbee’s collection at hakes.com.